Increasing density of monsters at Temple Of Time.

Async

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May 12, 2020
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In-game name: Async*, AsyncBishop, AsyncIce, AsyncIron, etc.

Description of suggestion:

Increase the mob density of Temple of Time to be comparable to Vera.

[OPTIONAL] Any visualizations of the concept (e.g. drawings, videos, more description):


Hopeful outcomes of this change:

Mage will no longer be the dominant class:

Mage has been the dominant class at TOT for a while now. Due to the low mob density, the kills per minute really depends on the range of the classes mobbing abilities- this has left mages as the DOMINANT meta choice.

Player retention will be higher:

People want to play on the classes they enjoy. Due to no other class being close to as efficient as mages, people feel forced to play mages so they can eventually fund the class they actually want to be playing. I feel that players wouldn't feel so burnt out from grinding if they were playing a class that they actually enjoyed.

Act as a catch up mechanic (which also helps with player retention):
Because players won't feel obligated to fund a mage before finally funding a main for Vera, they can focus on funding 1 singular character all the way to Vera. This is great, because it will help players catch up. Modern MMOs have figured out that catch up mechanics are healthy for the game. Players come for the gameplay, but the ones who stay tend to be the ones who are social. They stay for the community. New players tend not to be social due to feeling so alienated from the rest of the community that has hit mid-game already.

Help market diversity:

Due to the fact that other classes aren't used for farming pre-vera, any non-mage gear that isn't "vera ready" is usually just trashed or inno'd cause there is no market for it. This will add a new market for "okay" non-mage equipment. That newer players can buy and take advantage of.

Side tangent:
When I was new, I couldn't fathom people paying 100s of cogs for items when I could only farm a few cogs after hours of farming. I was lucky and someone lent me gear so I could farm at ROR4 barely and I could buy majority of the gear off him with the cogs I farmed. I farmed for hours and hours and hours for only a few cogs. I kept trying to make better equipment (because no one was selling mage gear for cheap) so that I could get to RTO4. One of the guides said I'd probably need a sylph to progress, so I asked in smega how much a freud's was. "25 cogs," broke my heart. It felt so unobtainable, while end game players were complaining about how easy the game had become... I got so frustrated, and I quit for a while. I fear that happening to other new players coming into the game, as I'd like to see the community grow.

Thank you for taking the time to read this suggestion, have a good day! :)
 

winniebean

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Jul 25, 2020
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I really like this suggestion

Biggest reason is because the first question new players ask (including myself) is "what character should I main?"

And the answer is.. well you need to farm on a mage... then farm on a nw/striker/mm... then boss dpm ranges but warrior is the best... but end game boss (kerb) needs multiple classes...

Basically the answer is always complex and confusing

Increasing mobs at tot would be the solution so that other jobs besides mages can farm at tot. This would make the jump from tot to vera much much smaller because you wouldn't need to regear another class

Really love this suggestion
 

Hisa

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Oct 22, 2019
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Community isn't growing becuz of the lack of content, can't really ask for more if server progress stays stagnant for almost 7 months.
Fyi, drk/nw are also top tier farmers in rto and ulu so I have no idea why ppl ask for early game buffs when 70% of population are farming in Vera alrdy.
 

winstonwlau

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Jun 23, 2020
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I have no idea why ppl ask for early game buffs when 70% of population are farming in Vera alrdy.

So when new players join, they have an easier way of getting started and established in Windia instead of quitting due to the progression stall after ToT.
 

Hisa

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Oct 22, 2019
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So when new players join, they have an easier way of getting started and established in Windia instead of quitting due to the progression stall after ToT.
Like I said, warriors and thief are also clutch in rto, roar even gives higher drop rate than mage. The only 2 classes that fall off is Archer and pirate which end up being strong farmers in Vera.
 

Async

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May 12, 2020
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Community isn't growing becuz of the lack of content, can't really ask for more if server progress stays stagnant for almost 7 months.
Fyi, drk/nw are also top tier farmers in rto and ulu so I have no idea why ppl ask for early game buffs when 70% of population are farming in Vera alrdy.
Like I said, warriors and thief are also clutch in rto, roar even gives higher drop rate than mage. The only 2 classes that fall off is Archer and pirate which end up being strong farmers in Vera.

While I can understand being frustrated with the lack of things to do as an old player, I don't draw that as a very strong correlation to new player retention- seeing as new players are FAR away from Vera.
RTO and ULU are massively different. ULU actually does have a dense mob spawn, but also has roughly 1/20th the HP of an RTO4 mob.
I would love to see this farming technique that you mention that is comparable to mage, because I've yet to see such things. With Bishop having the ability to wipe effectively 15 mobs per spawn cycle, and have an increased drop rate of 10%- It'd be very impressive to see anything remotely comparable.
Perception is weird thing. Most new players don't have access to NX to smega, and haven't been around long enough to find a social circle. But recently, there've been TWO new guilds focused on new players that've grown massively. I stock shops full of new player gear; nhtp, scarlion helms, zak helms, dark crystals, masterybooks, etc. It sells out nearly everyday. I offer you to take a look around the FM shops, and see how many names you don't recognize. Look into some, and see how selling a lot of those items wouldn't be worth your time. I think there are a lot more newbies then you think there are. :)
 
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Eludus

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Nov 22, 2019
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I know Dark knight, Striker, Dawn Warrior, Corsair are popular farming classes for newer players aside from the usualy mages, ulu onwards to rto. Not sure if its efficient, but its what I mainly saw when doing my rounds
 

Hisa

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Oct 22, 2019
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The main role for mage is mid/early game farmer, bring it to endgame and see what it achieves. This post is basically asking to wipe the advantage of a class that's pretty much outclassed by every job endgame. As I said, there are other optional farmers for rto, drk can even achieve the same drop rate as mage with the right macro.
Also about ppl who bitch about the gear costs, ror4 is alrdy achievable with blue elemental set+ele 5 staffs. These gears are craftable just by farming skelegons and mass csing. So I have no idea where these complaints come from. The only reason I assume is probably not progressing “fast” enough. I guess it's just the server’s fault for not letting players reach endgame in one month . If y'all really wanna negate progression, which this server pretty much only needs to backseat leech legion to progress, it might be better to just find another ps with higher rate.
 

Async

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May 12, 2020
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I know Dark knight, Striker, Dawn Warrior, Corsair are popular farming classes for newer players aside from the usualy mages, ulu onwards to rto. Not sure if its efficient, but its what I mainly saw when doing my rounds
I have two points to make against this.
"Aside from the usualy mages" acknowledges that mage is the normal. People either through intuition or word of mouth understand that at TOT, mages' full map attacks is the superior option to use in that situation.
"Not sure if its efficient," well in there lies the issue. These players are choosing to go down an unconventional route because they don't want to play mage, and the disadvantage that is placed upon the player due to that choice doesn't seem necessary.

This design decision seems to have already been made when Vera was put into the game, consciously or not; Vera is packed to the brim with monsters and that allows for VIABLE class diversity. The suggestion now is to retro-fit that decision into TOT, so that class diversity is more viable in early game.

The main role for mage is mid/early game farmer, bring it to endgame and see what it achieves. This post is basically asking to wipe the advantage of a class that's pretty much outclassed by every job endgame. As I said, there are other optional farmers for rto, drk can even achieve the same drop rate as mage with the right macro.
Also about ppl who bitch about the gear costs, ror4 is alrdy achievable with blue elemental set+ele 5 staffs. These gears are craftable just by farming skelegons and mass csing. So I have no idea where these complaints come from. The only reason I assume is probably not progressing “fast” enough. I guess it's just the server’s fault for not letting players reach endgame in one month . If y'all really wanna negate progression, which this server pretty much only needs to backseat leech legion to progress, it might be better to just find another ps with higher rate.

I actually play a mage, and enjoy company with a few end game mages. They do just fine, and are desired even more so for holy symbol and class diversity in Kerb for easier management of drops.
Once again, I believe you are massively overestimating how much damage you gain from basic early game gear. Even on Ironman with many COG'd & luckily leveled items and massive multipliers, I have yet to be able to farm ROR4 effectively. Loveless gear is often desired by late game players to reroll, and timeless gear is rarely sold.
This post isn't about "negating progression" or complaining about it "not progressing 'fast' enough," it's about making other classes farming in TOT on par with mages. (Even then catch up mechanics are very important to the MMO ecosystem: take a look at runescape, osrs, world of warcraft, etc. But that's an argument for another day.)
Suggesting that another player to "find another ps," isn't beneficial to the server. The suggestion section of the forums is here for a reason, and I'm glad to argue to pros and cons. The admins of the server get to decide the direction of the server, and the mere existence of this section suggests that they are open to ideas. So, I'll continue to make suggestions, and I shall not be leaving the server any time soon. :)
 
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Hisa

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Oct 22, 2019
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I actually play a mage, and enjoy company with a few end game mages. They do just fine, and are desired even more so for holy symbol and class diversity in Kerb for easier management of drops.
Once again, I believe you are massively overestimating how much damage you gain from basic early game gear. Even on Ironman with many COG'd & luckily leveled items and massive multipliers, I have yet to be able to farm ROR4 effectively. Loveless gear is often desired by late game players to reroll, and timeless gear is rarely sold.
This post isn't about "negating progression" or complaining about it "not progressing 'fast' enough," it's about making other classes farming in TOT on par with mages. (Even then catch up mechanics are very important to the MMO ecosystem: take a look at runescape, osrs, world of warcraft, etc. But that's an argument for another day.)
Suggesting that another player to "find another ps," isn't beneficial to the server. The suggestion section of the forums is here for a reason, and I'm glad to argue to pros and cons. The admins of the server get to decide the direction of the server, and the mere existence of this section suggests that they are open to ideas. So, I'll continue to make suggestions, and I shall not be leaving the server any time soon.
So the definition of being “fine” endgame is being an hs mule and a drop mule? Or are u just ignoring the fact that int scales like shit with endgame gears? Not to mention as a Vera farmer it's drop rate is only mediocre. Even with capped gears it's dpm and uptime is significantly lower than other classes.
Also, pls point out a valid point why I am overestimating early game gears. Back then when there were no chaos gears and timeless were rare drops, players would mass scroll 300+int blue elemental gears and 700+int czar with cs, which is totally affordable for early game players. However ur here telling me about cogging gears with ironman, a custom class that has limited scaling potential.
Lastly, suggesting to buff tot maps IS asking for an early game boost and will only shorten servers lifespan. Unless there's a new update to increase game depth or else I'm against this idea. Ur basically trying to tilt class balance and induce cog inflation at the same time.
 

Async

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May 12, 2020
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So the definition of being “fine” endgame is being an hs mule and a drop mule? Or are u just ignoring the fact that int scales like shit with endgame gears? Not to mention as a Vera farmer it's drop rate is only mediocre. Even with capped gears it's dpm and uptime is significantly lower than other classes.
I would hardly call 25b dpm on top of utility a mule; and Vera farming as a mage is viable- hence why people do it.

Also, pls point out a valid point why I am overestimating early game gears. Back then when there were no chaos gears and timeless were rare drops, players would mass scroll 300+int blue elemental gears and 700+int czar with cs, which is totally affordable for early game players. However ur here telling me about cogging gears with ironman, a custom class that has limited scaling potential.


It would take 21954 magic for an F/P to be able to 1 shot at ROR4.
If they leveled every single class to 200, they would have a legion of 4600, giving them +460% more int.
If we were to say they got 1954 matt from codex + staff + earrings, etc...
Divide 20000 by 5.60 = roughly 3570 equipment int they need to have.
Let's say they got a 290 targa, 80 int from mask and glasses, 200 int from earrings, 4 * 75 int rings, 300 int shield, 600 int staff, 700 int czar, 300 int shoes, 300 int gloves, 400 int nhtp... You'd still be 100 int short.

I mention ironmen, because it highlights the early grind. Even with our massive multipliers (2775% damage brandish btw) progress at the beginning is hard, especially for non-mages.

Lastly, suggesting to buff tot maps IS asking for an early game boost and will only shorten servers lifespan. Unless there's a new update to increase game depth or else I'm against this idea. Ur basically trying to tilt class balance

Making other classes viable doesn't increase the amount of farmers at TOT, the overall time it would take to progress from TOT wouldn't be drastically different, it would just let people play classes they enjoy but feel too inefficient to farm with currently.

and induce cog inflation at the same time.

As I said earlier: Making other classes viable doesn't increase the amount of farmers at TOT. Even then, the amount of cogs brought into the economy from TOT farmers is drastically smaller then the amount brought into the game from Vera.


Edit: Someone pointed out to me that I forgot to calculate the 25% INT Penalty from not having a sylph- so it'll take even more then that.
 
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VinnieTheNasi

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Feb 16, 2020
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The only reason I started with mage last time cause it was the fastest and easiest way to get to 1hit ROR4 without any end game items, just pure 10% int scrolls and dont forget elemental staff and i can scroll it with 100% 10% int scroll from gacha.I wonder if other class level 120 eq helps u to get to ROR4 1 hit as fast as mage. and from there 1 hour grind of ROR4 = 6 cog can get a freud. so its 5 hours. Quite a good catch up mechanic. compared to 100cog freud. and also, once I gotten a slyph, only thing i need is 15 cog clean czak helm, and 5 cog loveless wand so thats about 4 hours farming. Plus increasing mob density, makes mages more efficient right ? i dont need to time my cast to match the mobs spawn. Correct me if I am wrong.

Now lets compare to a warrior. to get 1 hit ROR4 without slyph. Have u tried it? and do u use10% on the eq or cog it ? with warrior roar i get to hit 10 mobs. How long do I need to farm and fund it even if they have mobs density I would still be 3-4 hitting rather than 1 hitting mage, I would still have trouble to get to ROR4 faster as a warrior compared to mage. Mage was basically the short cut to slyph. So by the time I get to RTo4 and fund a new char for vera is way faster than grinding and funding that one char and only char that is non mage. because of number of mobs it hits and how fast to get to 1 hit KO.


BY THE WAY:

The new fastest way to slyph : Gacha, SELL PSOK, SELL SPS service. There is no point increasing mobs density if your goal is to make players stay because they dont need to fund mage. There are many that dont have mage farmers now as starter.
 
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