Alternatives to Mastery Books.

Async

Member
In-game name: Async*, AsyncBishop, AsyncIce, AsyncIron, etc.

Description of suggestion:

Add an option inside of the Credit shop to unlock a @max command that maxes all abilities on a character, without need of any mastery books.
Add an option inside of the Vote Points shop to max all abilities on that character.

[OPTIONAL] Any visualizations of the concept (e.g. drawings, videos, more description):


Hopeful outcomes of this change:

New players attempting to fill out the codex won't be hindered:
Players looking for a specific masterybook will usually end up murdering the boss on every single channel in search of a specific masterybook. After all, it's much easier for older players to kill a boss with a 10% chance every few seconds then to wait for a 0.2% drop from a regular mob. Then when a new player comes around trying to fill out their codex, there are no bosses left to kill.

New players will get in the habit of voting for the server:
I don't imagine most players vote for a server until they realize the benefit of doing such. If the benefit is realized very early on, then it's more votes for the server! :)

More donations:
Lazy gamers (me) will end up donating to the server (or using RLS) for a @max command because searching for masterybooks is a pain; and if you want to do daily bosses on all your accounts, you want all the skills to be maxed.

I won't feel bad throwing out mastery books knowing that some new player may need them.
Help my inventory is full of them, my storage can't take much more, and my shop can only hold 16. 😭
 

Nekomaki

Head of Staff
Administrator
Moderator
I hope you realize you're (basically) asking for a GM command to be added to the VP/DP shop.
 

Async

Member
I hope you realize you're (basically) asking for a GM command to be added to the VP/DP shop.
Phrasing it like makes it seem like the outcome of the command is limited to GMs, when the reality is that the outcome of the command can be achieved via normal game play- getting the mastery books.

I don't think the way that mastery books are were traditionally implemented meshes well with the custom objectives like codex hunting on the server.

Not to mention the fact that some mastery books are dropped by bosses which aren't viable for new players, and aren't sold by old players due to a lack of incentive.

I personally believe this is a win-win, server gets more votes and donations, and the players get an extra quality of life opportunity for new characters.
 

Eludus

Intern
Moderator
I feel that mastery book hunting is part of the new player experience and shouldn't be removed
 

Async

Member
I feel that mastery book hunting is part of the new player experience and shouldn't be removed
The new player experience already includes doing 250 quests, filling the codex, working on legion, and job advancing, etc.

Very often bosses are the best way to obtain a mastery book, but there are a limited amount of them. There are times when I need to kill Pianus for a mastery book or skill book but he is dead on every channel. Other times I have to a boss like manon on every channel because I get really unlucky on a mastery book drop, and people can't use them for explorer's 4th job advance. Sometime this happens with TOT bosses, and people can't continue on the TOT quest line.

At the end of the day mastery books wouldn't be removed, these suggestions would be an alternative to hunting. Similar to the way that credits can be used to buy max inventory slots for the entire account, @sok, etc; these things can be done otherwise, but it is a quality of life thing to donate for them. I don't feel like mastery book hunting is an enjoyable part of the grind, and introducing a new quality of life can be used to benefit the server in another way.
 

Async

Member
Mastery book actually drop like tons in zakum, horntail, etc. Its not that hard to hunt for a mastery book
Let's use Genesis 20 as an example.


As you know, Oblivion Guardians and Zakum both have significantly more health then normal. These are significantly out of reach for a new player who is making a bishop for skelegons or ulu.

Even if they could kill zakum using the entire time, and could ~20 hit the oblivion guardians with genesis 10 ( Which I believe is really optimistic seeing as with 8000 magic, I was only hitting 1.7m with Genesis 30 and Oblivion Guardians have ~40m health.) There is roughly a 36% chance to get it from the 2 daily Zakums that day; and a ~78% chance to get it from the Oblivion Guards after 500 kills. 500 kills assuming they can 20 hit (which once again is optimistic) would be 1000 casts (Because non-maxed Genesis only hits 10 mobs.) @ 2.5 seconds each for genesis. That's ~42 minutes of inefficiently 20 hitting mobs, feeling gross.

Mastery books are essential to efficient farming. New players are massively effected by them, whether it be in codex hunting or mastery book hunting. There are many grinds in this game, and this one was designed for a much slower paced game- GMS. The damage increase from max mastery doesn't make that much of a difference in the massive grind that is gear progression, but because it effects the speed of that grind if feels necessary for new players to do. I feel like adding a quality of life chance way to bypass this grind will help new players progress a little faster, help with player retention, and help the server with votes and donations.
 

winniebean

Member
I did not know that was a gm command - that's pretty cool.

Mastery book farming is a fun form of maplestory - I agree.

The issue is that many beginning gamers can't get skills they need from bosses.

There may be other solutions (ie buying in fm) which reed / async does an amazing job of selling by putting up mushroom stores... but he needs to put them up daily.

A compromise: Perhaps we can use vote points to maximize one character? that way its great for beginners and encourages voting
 

Eludus

Intern
Moderator
Personally, I enjoyed hunting mastery books especially as a new player, i feel it brings up some challenge in the game, even if its a little. Though I have to agree that for books that only drop from naturally spawning bosses are a pain as players tend to mass massacre them. At least in the past when there were more players.
 
Let's use Genesis 20 as an example.


As you know, Oblivion Guardians and Zakum both have significantly more health then normal. These are significantly out of reach for a new player who is making a bishop for skelegons or ulu.

Even if they could kill zakum using the entire time, and could ~20 hit the oblivion guardians with genesis 10 ( Which I believe is really optimistic seeing as with 8000 magic, I was only hitting 1.7m with Genesis 30 and Oblivion Guardians have ~40m health.) There is roughly a 36% chance to get it from the 2 daily Zakums that day; and a ~78% chance to get it from the Oblivion Guards after 500 kills. 500 kills assuming they can 20 hit (which once again is optimistic) would be 1000 casts (Because non-maxed Genesis only hits 10 mobs.) @ 2.5 seconds each for genesis. That's ~42 minutes of inefficiently 20 hitting mobs, feeling gross.

Mastery books are essential to efficient farming. New players are massively effected by them, whether it be in codex hunting or mastery book hunting. There are many grinds in this game, and this one was designed for a much slower paced game- GMS. The damage increase from max mastery doesn't make that much of a difference in the massive grind that is gear progression, but because it effects the speed of that grind if feels necessary for new players to do. I feel like adding a quality of life chance way to bypass this grind will help new players progress a little faster, help with player retention, and help the server with votes and donations.
Nonono this is completely wrong for a new player. For any new player without much legion, trying to get gen 20, or for that matter any skill book at all is the wrong approach to advance in Windia.

The correct approach, is to first bring up your legion levels, which makes mid game easier. The correct approach, is to get about 15 to 20 characters (non beginners), starting with Cygnus chars cuz they are easier, to preferably 126, or at least 4th job. This step does not take any skill books at all.

Once they have something like 16 or so chars at 120, that is something like 2k legion levels. At that point, with a bishop, you should be much closer to being able to train on oblivion guardians, which will get you your gen 20 much easier. Your assumption is that new players will literally ignore legion levels and play a char to 200 or something, which is the wrong way going solo in Windia. Legion levels is the single most important element to bring up first, everything else is secondary.

Also at 1k legion you can get ironman, which if you lvl to at least 120 ish, that is a free 240 legion levels, which makes something like 2.5k legion levels much easier (while getting only non begginers to lvl 120). 250% stat generally makes you farming the advanced buffed mobs like oblivion guardians much more viable
 

Async

Member
Nonono this is completely wrong for a new player. For any new player without much legion, trying to get gen 20, or for that matter any skill book at all is the wrong approach to advance in Windia.

The correct approach, is to first bring up your legion levels, which makes mid game easier. The correct approach, is to get about 15 to 20 characters (non beginners), starting with Cygnus chars cuz they are easier, to preferably 126, or at least 4th job. This step does not take any skill books at all.

Once they have something like 16 or so chars at 120, that is something like 2k legion levels. At that point, with a bishop, you should be much closer to being able to train on oblivion guardians, which will get you your gen 20 much easier. Your assumption is that new players will literally ignore legion levels and play a char to 200 or something, which is the wrong way going solo in Windia. Legion levels is the single most important element to bring up first, everything else is secondary.

Also at 1k legion you can get ironman, which if you lvl to at least 120 ish, that is a free 240 legion levels, which makes something like 2.5k legion levels much easier (while getting only non begginers to lvl 120). 250% stat generally makes you farming the advanced buffed mobs like oblivion guardians much more viable
Mate, I play the game- you don't have to explain it to me.

It's a video game, inefficiency isn't wrong. Insinuating to new players that they MUST farm legion or they are "playing wrong" will tank new player retention. Leveling a ton of characters up in a short time span can be very boring. Hell, I know some people who farm at Vera who are yet to finish their 250 quests for the account wide watt/matt; because it's boring!

Heck while this isn't as much of a thing anymore, I used to farm at ulu so that I could afford to pay for a leaches at RTO4. Grabbing mastery books is very important to feeling efficient.

To add onto the fact that due to the low amount of players at RTO, the chance of them having access to a leach grows slimmer and slimmer. Thus, having access to 4th job advancement upgraded abilities becomes more and more important to training from 120 to 200.

Along with many other players who are further along in the game, I think you greatly underestimate the gear and legion to required to train at TOT. If you could have 2k legion, newbie gear, no sylph, and train at RTO- I would be FLABBERGASTED.
 

Eludus

Intern
Moderator
If the discussion is hunting mastery books at tot, you don't need good damage, back then I hunted at tot for the mastery books even if it took 20+ hits.
Heck, timeless eqs were expensive back then, I hunted for the piece of time to craft reverse items
 

Async

Member
If the discussion is hunting mastery books at tot, you don't need good damage, back then I hunted at tot for the mastery books even if it took 20+ hits.
Heck, timeless eqs were expensive back then, I hunted for the piece of time to craft reverse items
At this point in the sever, should you not have an alternative? Does the benefit of the mastery book grind being the only way outweigh the benefits of new players voting to max out the skills of a character they enjoy- a player that may not have voted otherwise? Does the time sync inconvenience of finding mastery books on a well established account outweigh the benefit of donation credits being removed from circulation for convenience sake?
We already have a few convenience commands, @sok being one of them- and I've purchased it; I'm sure can be said the same of others.

Side note:
A few players and I stock mastery book shops- we've heard to the vocal discomfort of new players grinding out mastery books. We feel that by helping players, we help the the new player retention.
Is this feeling due to the social aspect of helping others, or due to the idea of circumventing an (in my opinion) unnecessary grind? I don't know the answer to that- but I stand by the idea that this suggestion would be beneficial to the server overall.
 

Eludus

Intern
Moderator
At this point in the sever, should you not have an alternative? Does the benefit of the mastery book grind being the only way outweigh the benefits of new players voting to max out the skills of a character they enjoy- a player that may not have voted otherwise? Does the time sync inconvenience of finding mastery books on a well established account outweigh the benefit of donation credits being removed from circulation for convenience sake?
We already have a few convenience commands, @sok being one of them- and I've purchased it; I'm sure can be said the same of others.

Side note:
A few players and I stock mastery book shops- we've heard to the vocal discomfort of new players grinding out mastery books. We feel that by helping players, we help the the new player retention.
Is this feeling due to the social aspect of helping others, or due to the idea of circumventing an (in my opinion) unnecessary grind? I don't know the answer to that- but I stand by the idea that this suggestion would be beneficial to the server overall.
For this, I’m unsure of the cost benefits with windia selling the command, nor about new players opinion on this. I’m just simply stating my opinions of the time when I was new and even now when I main new characters (Though the grind isn’t that long and tiring anymore).

Anyways, I may have misled before with the way I phrased words. But I do not actually have an opinion whether the command should be added. I’m just giving my opinion and experience as a player who hunted for the books without commands.Though if it does exists, I’ll probably buy it anyways uwu
 
Mate, I play the game- you don't have to explain it to me.

It's a video game, inefficiency isn't wrong. Insinuating to new players that they MUST farm legion or they are "playing wrong" will tank new player retention. Leveling a ton of characters up in a short time span can be very boring. Hell, I know some people who farm at Vera who are yet to finish their 250 quests for the account wide watt/matt; because it's boring!

Heck while this isn't as much of a thing anymore, I used to farm at ulu so that I could afford to pay for a leaches at RTO4. Grabbing mastery books is very important to feeling efficient.

To add onto the fact that due to the low amount of players at RTO, the chance of them having access to a leach grows slimmer and slimmer. Thus, having access to 4th job advancement upgraded abilities becomes more and more important to training from 120 to 200.

Along with many other players who are further along in the game, I think you greatly underestimate the gear and legion to required to train at TOT. If you could have 2k legion, newbie gear, no sylph, and train at RTO- I would be FLABBERGASTED.
inefficiency isn't wrong, but it is "inefficient" and hence you can't do many things that you could if you took an "efficient" path. Inefficiency is also just a style of play. And depending on which private server you play in, certain private servers make playing 1 style easier than another. This server, very much emphasizes making lots of characters, building their levels up as high as possible for legion. There are other servers, like Royals, that is all about really just building 1 character as strong as possible. There are also high rate servers that introduce rebirths, that is another style.

Needless to say, legion levels form the basis and foundations of any account on this server, and hence building up your legion as a new character is the most efficient approach. If you follow this approach, your transition to mid game is much much easier. Just like how you can absolutely play STR mage, hp warrior or int warriors in old MS, they are all viable and not "wrong", but it is definitely not optimal, nor easy to play, hence not the "right" way to play. You don't see people in Maplestory crying about how bishops have a hard time 1 shotting skeles, when their main stat on their bishop is STR, just like how you shouldn't be crying about how you can't kill oblivion guardian efficiently, on your very first bishop with 0 legion levels.

In the case of your suggestion with mastery books, what I am saying is the efficient approach is not to worry about mastery books at all, until you have about 2.5k legion levels. If you are saying that is limiting how players approach playing WindiaMS, I suggest they migrate to Royals or whatever low rate single character servers that are higher on the GTop 200 list, those servers most likely fit their style better. When you determine which pserver to play, you should look at the unique features these servers offer anyways, and see if it fits your style. If it doesn't, why are you even here? There are most likely other ones that will give you more enjoyment.

If you choose to play this server and ignore legion levels from the beginning, it is absolutely your freedom to do so. Just know that your choice makes your path to mid game much harder, and if that's what you want, absolutely do as you please. Just don't complain when you have to 20 hit oblivion guardians on your 1st character. This is because oblivion guardians are most likely designed for characters with at least a few hundred legion levels under their belt, not 0
 
Last edited:

Async

Member
-----

I suggest they migrate to Royals or whatever low rate single character servers that are higher on the GTop 200 list, those servers most likely fit their style better. When you determine which pserver to play, you should look at the unique features these servers offer anyways, and see if it fits your style. If it doesn't, why are you even here? There are most likely other ones that will give you more enjoyment.
I'll start off my reply by quoting my reply to another user, as it appears that it needs to be reinforced.

Suggesting that another player to "find another ps," isn't beneficial to the server. The suggestion section of the forums is here for a reason, and I'm glad to argue to pros and cons. The admins of the server get to decide the direction of the server, and the mere existence of this section suggests that they are open to ideas. So, I'll continue to make suggestions, and I shall not be leaving the server any time soon. :)
-----

Just like how you can absolutely play STR mage, hp warrior or int warriors in old MS, they are all viable and not "wrong", but it is definitely not optimal, nor easy to play, hence not the "right" way to play. You don't see people in Maplestory crying about how bishops have a hard time 1 shotting skeles, when their main stat on their bishop is STR,
That appeals to the extreme using the wrong correlation. You correlate a new player attempting to obtain mastery books with a player intentionally limiting themselves via stat restrictions because they both are inefficient; but a new player would only be attempting to find mastery books for their skills to be efficient. One is playing how they intuitively know to play maple, while the other is intentionally going against that intuition.

-----

just like how you shouldn't be crying about how you can't kill oblivion guardian efficiently, on your very first bishop with 0 legion levels.
Ad hominem.

-----

If you choose to play this server and ignore legion levels from the beginning, it is absolutely your freedom to do so. Just know that your choice makes your path to mid game much harder, and if that's what you want, absolutely do as you please. Just don't complain when you have to 20 hit oblivion guardians on your 1st character. This is because oblivion guardians are most likely designed for characters with at least a few hundred legion levels under their belt, not 0
Once again that is appealing to the extreme using an incorrect correlation. A new player isn't necessarily someone who is voluntarily limiting themselves from efficient progression. Inefficiency in new players is usually due to either growing tired of the efficient method, or being ignorant to the efficient method's existence.

Also, it takes a LOT more then a few hundred legion levels to effectively farm RTO4.

-----

I could repeat myself, but I'd rather link to another of my post from above.

 
-----



I'll start off my reply by quoting my reply to another user, as it appears that it needs to be reinforced.



-----



That appeals to the extreme using the wrong correlation. You correlate a new player attempting to obtain mastery books with a player intentionally limiting themselves via stat restrictions because they both are inefficient; but a new player would only be attempting to find mastery books for their skills to be efficient. One is playing how they intuitively know to play maple, while the other is intentionally going against that intuition.

-----



Ad hominem.

-----



Once again that is appealing to the extreme using an incorrect correlation. A new player isn't necessarily someone who is voluntarily limiting themselves from efficient progression. Inefficiency in new players is usually due to either growing tired of the efficient method, or being ignorant to the efficient method's existence.

Also, it takes a LOT more then a few hundred legion levels to effectively farm RTO4.

-----

I could repeat myself, but I'd rather link to another of my post from above.
In regards to your comment about how looking for skillbooks being the efficient path is the most intuitive approach for new players playing this game reaching level 120, I want to say that this is true, but only in vanilla MS. Since players are playing pservers, I would imagine that firstly, as a background they most likely know that pservers are different in some way to vanilla MS (whether it be exp rate, unique features, rebirths or whatever), and secondly, since they chose to join WindiaMS, they most likely, and at the very minimum, researched and looked at what unique features does WindiaMS have.

If they did that, they should at least notice that Legion levels are pretty important. Now, they may not figure out that it is the first thing they need to work on to be "efficient" or that after lvl 120 you should create another char, but that probably just means we need better guides. My point is, that in the case of vanilla MS, finding skillbooks after lvl 120 on your first character, is "intuitive", but since you are playing a pserver called WindiaMS, and after you read the features of WindiaMS, hopefully intuitively you realize that having legion levels may just be as important, or at least more important than trying to find that gene 20 skillbook on your very 1st bishop from multi million HP oblivion guardians.

Suppose you didn't realize that in the beginning, and you did try, on your 1st bishop to 20 hit oblivion guardian, then I hope that at least at some point, a light bulb went off in the new player's head that this is probably not the "efficient and intuitive" way to play this game. At this point, I sure as hell hope they either ask someone on whether this approach they are taking is "efficient", or alternatively look for a guide on the forums/discord that may suggest a more meta approach. If no such person or guide exists, then our problem here is not about skill books, its about lack of guides for new players. You cannot expect us to hardcore hand hold new players, we need to assume they have some level of logic here. We are all adults presumably with some capability of reasoning, and most adults don't just bang their heads against the wall over and over.

In general, as with most players playing pserver, their intuition about how their pserver should be played, should change from their vanilla MS. And for new players, they need to have that mindset shift as well.

Second point I want to make is your seemingly antagonistic attitude towards people telling new players to "find another pserver". First of all, I want to be clear that at least for me, it is not meant with malice.

Further, I would argue that when a new player doesn't adjust to the unique features of WindiaMS, it most likely suggest that WindiaMS doesn't fit the new player's playstyle. I believe this is true because ultimately speaking, players won't enjoy playing the game in a way that goes against how the creators of the game designed it (back to banging your head against the wall). If you accept this is true, then this would eventually lead to less satisfaction playing WindiaMS, which leads to a possible decrease in vote/donation counts, and decrease in playtime.

If so, how is having a dissatisfied new player beneficial to the server in anyway, or is the goal just to up the player count no matter what (which won't even last in this case anyway)? If new players don't form their "WindiaMS intuition" of something as simple as working on Legion levels before skill books, then they will have a harder and harder time progressing in WindiaMS. How will they survive figuring out how to farm the hundreds of cogs needed to get tyrants, to get into Vera?

If for them, grinding for legion levels (or doing the 250 quest) is "boring", then god forbid when they start having to grind out cogs for veracent or tyrants. If they truly find grinding boring, maybe they should try a rebirth server that progress much faster and have more instant gratification. This also relates to your comment about "growing tired of the efficient method". The nature of MS, vanilla or Windia, is about the grind. If you grow tired of the most efficient progression method possible, then I would say WindiaMS is not really for you, and again, you should probably join a rebirth server, where the "efficient" method is probably faster than WindiaMS.

The final 2 points I want to make is about your comment of "being ignorant of efficient method". In that case as I've briefly mentioned before, that just means we need better guides and better visibility of those guides for new players. That is a separate discussion. And also, even tho RTO4 probably does need a sylph ring to farm, it doesn't change the fact that you don't have to efficiently farm RTO4 to get your skill book. I would argue that new players can probably do quite well with just getting a gene 20 from RTO4, with 2500 legion levels, and using an I/L archmage. It for sure will take less than 20 hits to kill 1 oblivion guardian.

Bottom line: The reason new players chose to come to WindiaMS (and any pserver in general), is that they wanted a different way of playing MS, compared with playing vanilla MS. Otherwise why are they here? Therefore, it can be argued that it is THEIR RESPONSIBILITY to first know how is WindiaMS different to vanilla MS and other pservers, and to form the "intuition" for playing WindiaMS due to these unique features. They are free to not follow that intuition and play the same way they did in vanilla MS, but they then need to keep in mind that they might just have to 20 hit oblivion guardian to get their gene 20 on their first char as a tradeoff
 
Last edited:
I think this suggestion is purely for ppl who just want the easy way out. Eventually, players might as well request for special command on 250 quest and also special command for max legion. I believe SPS and PSOK are good reason ppl continue voting and I dont see this will actually encourage ppl to continue voting as these commands are one time usage per char unlike SPS and PSOK which are even tradeable or service based.

hunting for skill book and failing it to max is part of the game process. it just like how u fail cogging your items or leveling ur cwkpq medals. Some game difficulties had to be retained in order to let new players not to advance too fast. And also how does this commands allow new players to play efficiently? The game is getting easier these days and a lot of new approach has been used by newbies entering the game. They can grind old school method, they can be a gachaer, they can sell PSOK and SPS service to farm which is why they should continue to vote.

The game had progress and more efficient way has been found to help new players quickly rose to mid game or even end game. A lot of guild whom member giving free mastery book and even equipment to newbies in the game. By adding this kind of option makes the game feel more like a solo player need, not community play game.
 
Top